Silat Jurus vs Wing Chun Forms

Yo !

I am going through some basic juru training in Silat. As I have some knowledge of Wing Chun forms, (including different lineages versions), I wanted to do a mini-comparison.

From a beginners perspective when you examine Juru 1 and Sil Lum Tao as entry level forms the differences are interesting. Silat has more double hand movements in it. Wing Chun has some double hand movements initially for the generic salutation, then focuses generally on single hand movements.

In Juru 1 there is this underarm slide that looks like the underarm slide in Biu Gee. This is interesting indeed. The application I was shown is very simialr to Wing Chun's. But the gap in being shown these in your Wing Chun 'career' vs the Silat novice is measured in years.

I wonder if the concepts gained in Silat are more mature / faster than those in Wing Chun (as expressed in modern teaching of Wing Chun ?!). Would a Silat player come out with more concepts than a Wing Chun player in a similar timeframe ? 2 hands go into battle early on plus you get footwork and lower level training introduced.

I always thought Silat and Wing Chun look simiar in the hand movements. Hence this comparison. There is no point trying to shoe-horn Wing Chun into the Silat mold and vice versa as they are different mentalities. BUT if you want the same function out of these systems then the comparison is 'fair-use'.

On youtube look about for Silat jurus and forms and contrast this with Wing Chun forms. See a variety of practitioners.

I am begining to think Silat is a more flexible passport into other systems.

Do the Twist !

Twisting in Wing Chun is different from twisting in Silat.

If you watch the 2nd form Chium Kiu on youtube, you will see that they twist the whole body into their pivots.

Silat however, twists the top half of the body. I am learning that that yields more options for legwork. The baset sweep is a good example. You have to keep your base and turret independent to sweep, as the top half creates torque. Maybe I can find some vids to show the distinction.

Catching-Up !

Ahhh. I typed in my name for this place on google search to see what came up. And someone had noted it. So ... this jogged me back into action here again. Thanks Dojo Rat !

I have been meaning to put up progress on here and talk about things. It gets a bit demoralising when no one replys to my messages here #but# if its being read by at least one person who goes off and ponders then its worth it. Also if it helps me reflect on ideas then this needs to be kept up.

OK. Whats new. I have been looking at footwork on the Kali / Silat side of things. Wing Chun does seem to have a paucity of official footwork so I have always been wanting to check up on the Silat side of things.

What I have been doing is stepping on a 'V' shape - first one side then the other. This gets me to the outside gate. In a way this IS what the 116 movements does in the form it makes you move from centre to flank, back to center to flank .... in a 'V' shape if you like. BUT here the 'V' Kali does just go to the edge 1st of all - not just if the center is blocked.

Also I have been stepping in on the male triangle ... imagine a pyramid pointing forwards. I have been stepping forward to the point away from me with a circle step [like in the form that goes to the leg sweep in the 116 movements.]. The legs meet at the peak of the triangle and I sweep one foot back to the corner of the base. The sweep is called a biset - it drags back to base.

I tried to make a short video of myself using the dummy for a test. The dummy had no leg on and I was just seeing what it would look like. I was really hitting the dummy hard and wacking it - showing off if you like - and on the video you cant pick this up at all really ! I have more respect now for the videos I see on places like youtube. I bet these guys do really have some force in there that doesn't come across on that medium.

Using the dummy without the leg plugged in is very useful. I have reconfirmed this after watching Jospeh Simonet's slam set tape I have. It lets you do things that are prohibited by the 'official' form or space wise - like stand toe to toe and 'pummel' like grapplers for underhook.

I will post some pics here of other training things I have done or attempted and gave up!